Contracts and Worth Cont.

Brenden-
Pujols, -1b Berkman, 1b H Ramirez, SS. Cabrera, C Jones 3b/LF, Holliday LF, Fielder 1b , Braun Lf, Gonzalez 1b and Carlos Lee Lf.

09 - 308 at bats - 10 home runs - 11 steals - 50 runs. - .415 obp
08 - Full season - 27hr - 112 Rbi's - 116 runs - 25 steals - .376 opb -GOLD GLOVE
07 - 33 hr - 112 Rbi's - 23 steals - 97 runs - 23 - steals - .353 obp - GOLD GLOVE
06 - 41 hr - 116 Rbi's - 127 runs - 18 steals - .388 obp - GOLD GLOVE
05 - 582 ab - 16 Hr - 78 RBI's - 17 steals - .330 Obp
04 - 38 hr- 104 RBI- 121 runs - 42 steals - .367 Obp
03 - 26 Hr - 100 Rbi- 102 Runs - 41 steals - .346 Obp
02 - 29 Hr - 105 Rbi - 114 Runs - 35 steals - .389 Obp
01 - 24 Hr- 101 Rbi - 106 Runs - 31 steals - .362 Obp
00 - 372 ab - 7hr - 44Rbi - 49 Runs - 13 steals - .309 OBP
1999 AL Rookie Of the year.
Salary $19,401,571 8th in baseball.
Grady Sizemore's Top Production Years By Category:
HR: 33 - 2008 (Only Time over 30)
Rbi- 90 - 2008
Run: 134 -2006 (7 more runs than Beltran's high in same year)
SB: 38 - 2008
Obp: .390 - 2007
2007-2008 Gold Gloves in Center feild.
Salary $5,766,666
As Center Feilders go, this is the closest comparison I could find. And if we take the 1 season wonder arguement and apply it to somebosy that is not a Met (FOR ONCE) you will see that if you take away 2008 there is not even a comparable year.
-Now since you were nice enough to give me 3 &1/2 outfielders to compare to I will make a few comparisons. But lets not be silly and say that an Outfeilder is an Outfeilder is an Outfeilder. Belran's defining defensive playoff moment with Houston was that diving catch against the Cardinals that was impossible yet done. Matt Holliday's defining defensive playoff moment sent his team home for the year on Air Buckner.
Lee (Who can't catch a cold salary $19,000,000 $401,571 less than Beltran)
HR - 37 in 2006
Rbi: 119 in 2007
Runs- 102 - 2006
SB- 19 -2006
Obp - .342
Gold Gloves 0
Holliday (Salary $16,333,327 and will rise every year)
Hr.-36 - 2007
Rbi- 137 - 2007 (Better than Beltran's Best)
Run- 120 - 2007
Sb- 28 - 2008
Obp- .409
Gold Gloves- Only the One he had made for the playoff game last year.
Ryan Braun( Who has only been pro for 3 Seasons so yes he might do better but yes he might also get hurt) Salary$1,287,500 hasn't played for arbitration yet.
Hr-37
Rbi- 114
Run- 113
SB- 20
Obp- .386
Gold Glove- 0
And Just for Fun
Career High- Hanley Ramirez- Carlos Beltran - Winner
Hr- 33 41 Beltran by 7
Rbi- 106 116 Beltran by 10
Run- 125 121 Ramirez by 4
SB- 51 42 Ramirez by 9
Obp- .410 .389 Ramirez by .021
Gold Gloves- 0 3 Beltran by 3

So I get my numbers from the strangest place... I GET THEM FROM THE NUMBERS.

Tavman-
And again Gold Gloves rarely go to who should get them when put into statistical analysis such UZR and UZR/150. You get a one and chances are you are going to get more based on rep. Now I'm not saying Beltran isn't a damn good fielder (when he clearly is) and isn't a great five tool player but he's not one of the top three OF in the game and arguably (which I am clearly arguing) doesn't deserve the multiple gold gloves. Based on the above stats to the best three in the Natl league were Jayson Werth, Randy Wynn, and Cody Ross.

But we are talking money and contracts. He's one of the highest paid players in the games and his numbers just don't back that. Guys like Braun and Hanley don't count as their still under early deals but the point is that Beltran is paid like one of the top five guys in baseball and he clearly is not. Now you talk how OF aren't all equal and the other guys are 3b or 1b well that's why those positions are paid more because there is a great difference in the quality of the player and the top tier. Money that big goes to Pitchers and power hitting 1b and 3b not to CF who 162 avg is a very run of the mill
G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS OPS+ TB GDP HBP SH SF IBB
162 713 625 113 177 35 7 28 107 30 4 76 113 .283 .360 .496 .856 119 310 11 3 2 7 7
It's the same reason why a left tackle is paid much more that a left guard or center in football because they are worth more. Would you rather have a 19 mil beltran or a 5 mill Sizemore?
162 742 643 113 176 39 8 26 85 26 8 82 143 .273 .364 .480 .845 123 309 6 12 2 3 7
I would rather have the extra 14 mill to spend on other players.

In Discussing Contracts

Tav-For strictly contract and what he (Beltran) gets paid and does he's not worth it. That being said I don't agree with the howard contract. Way way way too much money for a guy who really only hits hour as rbis are a false stat and his ba isn't good. He got king albert money and he's not king albert. Beltrans gets paid right compared to what bay is getting but I think they are both way overrated and way overpaid. I could see beltran go if we get the pieces back.

Brendan-Actually King Albert is underpaid. He signed a 10 year 105m contract back in 2002. I don't really have an opinion about Howard's contract. Although he is more than just a HR guy. His OBP (which in my opinion is more important than batting average is always .360+. Tav, you remember when we went to the Phillies game many years ago. They actually played the Superman theme when Jim Thome came up to bat. For them to trade him in favor of Howard means that they saw something. They were considering offering Howard to the Mets for Milledge. (Remember that was when they were both top 10 prospects and there was no rivalry to the extent that there is now. It was the NL East against the Braves back then.) I think its funny that he got that contract with his own father as his agent. Last year, reports were that he was offered Pujolz/Beltran money and he wanted A-Rod money. I thought he was nuts. Well, he got A-Rod money. One is worth what somebody is willing to pay him for I suppose.
Beltran has been worth every penny for baseball reasons alone. I have always said that Reyes is the engine of that offense. Beltran has been the transmission. His first season was poor because he got hurt but still played to justify his contract. When he finally got going he got Mike Cameron's head jammed in his face at high impact. After that he has been a consistent anchor in the line-up until last season. He is tied for the Mets single season record for home runs. Has won multiple gold gloves, and has been in the top 3 in all offensive categories for most of his tenure. I am trying to think of a more valuable center fielders in the past decade. Can't think of too many. Andrew Jones maybe. Matt Kemp is in the early stages but does not have near the body of work. Hunter/Victorino/Sizemore are all in that second tier below him though Sizemore would be a closer second. Who am I forgetting?

Tavman-Ok I will agree that King Albert is underpaid. If he was getting the Howard contract I would say, "that's about right". Howard isn't worth that but you are worth what someone will give you. Now I'm not sure where you are getting you stats but you're wrong. Howard had two years of great OBP one that was a crazy 412 and another that was 392 but two of the three last years it's was under 340 and the 360 the third year wouldn't even put him anywhere in the top ten. He's 27 in OBP since he's playing. Hardly anything insane. He does however always finish in the top ten in OPS and top five in HR but still not worth 25 mil to me. Now as for Beltran, again I'm not sure where you are getting your stats but he has never finished in the top 3 in any of the major statistical categories. His best HR was in 06 when he finished 5th. Only one other year was he in the top ten. Same can be said for Extra Base hits. And that's the thing. Throw out 06 and he's been just a really good ball player. Nothing amazing. Only once in the top of the league adjusted OPS (again 06), Slugging (06), OPS (06) and Adj batting run and wins (both 06 as well) And that's just in the NL. But you know what he has been in the top ten of every year in the league is the highest paid. In 08 he was the highest paid guy in the league and last year number 2. Would you say he's a top 10 player? Not according to the stats. Barring his 06 career year he's not on the top ten anywhere. The names you see Pujols, Berkman, H Ramirez, Cabrera, C Jones, Holliday, Fielder, Braun, Gonzalez and Carlos Lee are all consistently in the top ten. You can't say that about our 19 mil plus man. Now you can talk about injuries but he has only been injured last year. He missed about 25 games in 06 (which add to the impressive state of that year) but until last year he was playing a full season and still not producing the numbers someone of his supposed stature should be putting up. You say he's top three so I assume you must mean Mets because thats' where he is top three. Wright and Reyes are more valuable to the team and Wright's name is in the top ten in statistical categories a lot more than Beltran.

And the Mets Hype is that just hype

I know he's young. I know it's early in his career and that you can't judge a guy after an inning but what I do know is that if Jenrry Mejia was what the Mets claimed he was he wouldn't of gotten rocked in his first appearance. All spring we had to listen to how he was the next Mariano and the next great pitcher. He was the youngest Met to make the roster since Doc. Now they are downplaying his appearance the same way they would of been bragging about it had he come in been lights out. But what they are forgetting to tell us is that many many young pitchers have come in and not got rocked. He didn't fool anyone and was hit hard by every batter except pitcher Nolasco. For the Mets it's all about the image and the puffery to get "we the fans" to forget about the fact that they have no pitching or that they are starting off in worse shape then it did last year. And that the Phillies, Braves, and Marlins have gotten better. Even the lowly Nationals are a much better team then they were last year. Maine, their number two starter got rocked and should not be a number two starter. Now they are bragging that they have confidence in Niese because what else are they supposed to say? As we have seen the past few years all they can do is spin their team and performance because the actual team and performance isn't getting it done. And frankly I'm tired of the Mets PR BS.